Jan 19

Get real, feminists: It's different for girls

Comments (33) by marketingtomilk January 19, 2012 - 7:02 AM

"Aunty Henri, how do you draw a cat?"

"That's simple honey - oval body, circle head, two triangles for ears and a long triangle tail."

"Oh!" my niece squeals excitedly. Diligently, she puts pen to paper and copies my illustration with great care, carefully checking off each shape as she draws them. She then proceeds to colour in a pink nose, a purple ribbon and pretty flowers for the cat to sit on. "I think mine's better than yours," she says eagerly, and I have to agree.

Just then, my eldest boy waltzes in, grabs a scrap of paper, twiddles for a bit before announcing "This is me shooting my brother in the head". Two stick men and an awful lot of red...

People are always trying to tell me the differences between "how" boys and girls are "created".  As in, culturally manufactured. That if you stuffed your newborn in a white room at birth, it wouldn't follow any of the developmental patterns or tendencies that constitute gender stereotype in the real world.

Quite frankly, I say bollocks. Girls and boys couldn't be MORE different.

When my boys are pissing all over the seat and the floor, while my niece is washing out her knickers because they got a little dirty, THEN tell me boys and girls are just the same.

When my boys are hollering at me that they can't wipe their own arse because their scrotum hangs in the way between their legs, while my niece is politely closing the door behind her for a bit of privacy, THEN tell me boys and girls are just the same.

When we're queuing at the ice cream van and my boys are chasing each other around the tree shouting "die, die!" and waving sticks at each other's heads, while my niece is calmly stood hand-in-hand with her mother contemplating the exact combination of scoop and sauce that would taste best while not risking too much mess on her freshly laundered white dress, THEN tell me boys and girls are just the same.

When my niece is following me around asking question after question after question about what I am doing and why and where and for how long, while my sons ignore every word I say. While she is pleading with me to show her how I apply my make-up while she carefully lays out my necklaces one by one, but my boys are breaking everything else that I own, THEN tell me boys and girls are just the same.

It is nothing to do with their potential or capabilities, it is not to deny either the same opportunities or choices or to enforce something on them based entirely on their gender, just that to ignore the differences is also to do them a disservice.

Most boys prefer blue, while pink makes them vomit.  White room or no white room.

by marketingtomilk January 19, 2012 - 7:02 AM


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Comments (33)

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  • Report Thu Feb 16, 2012 - 10:45 pm
    by  Viv
    Apart from some biological differences I disagree about behaviour stemming from these as we are very complex and varied beings. From babies we are all conditioned to confirm to stereotypes. From pink clothing, children 's cartoons, adverts, toys, other people - you name it. Children who dare to differ are often bullied. Brand washed toddlers who can barely speak still know from family and the TV how boys and girls are supposed to behave and what they should want based on gender. Babies don't get to choose how their bedroom is decorated, or their toys and clothes when they can't even talk or walk. I hear many parents speaking to babies and toddlers in a completely sexist manner that makes me cringe. Not to mention prams with "Princess" emblazoned in pink with all the frills and sparkles to boot. You have 2 boys who behave differently to their cousin. Might it not just be that they have different personalities as individuals too? Brothers or sisters often copy each other also hence the doubling of behaviour with your boys. My brother, like your niece, queried how everything worked as a child and he had a concentration span that could last hours. Let?s not catogorise people with preconceived ideas based on old-fashioned and suspect ideas about gender. Our upbring, our families and our society shape us. We are all individuals and should be taken as we are found with no prejudice based on our sex. It is incredibly frustrating for the many people who don?t conform and would like to see an end to sexism whether directed at men or women. I celebrate the differences in people and love the fact that personalities ?male and female ? vary so much.
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  • Report Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 8:54 am
    by  Blue Sky
    I haven't read all the comments, but I think gender is more of a continuum, with girlie girls at one end and macho boys at the other. But I think that every child can be influenced in the choices they make by their parents and by their environment. However my severely handicapped dd has proved - to me at least - that some girlie behaviour is innate: I've seen her put out her hand in Primark to grab a sparkly pink bag for example and she loves girlie pop stars and pretty things and will choose them and she's barely watched an ad in her life.
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  • Report Sat Jan 21, 2012 - 11:58 pm
    by  rachel
    I totally agree. i thought it was all sociolgy until my daughter literally overnight turned into a girl who was obsessed with pink and princesses
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  • Report Sat Jan 21, 2012 - 3:12 pm
    by  Nikkii
    Yet until the early 20th century pink was for boys (red being considered the stronger colour) and blue was for girls (calmer.... ). Hard to argue it's not a socially constructed preference when it has been! Gonna be interesting to see how that baby with the secret gender and noname turns out - pretty screwed up I imagine. We are social animals and a big part of that is recognising similarities between ourselves and identifying with them. Of course the crap side of that is recognising differences but knowing the limits of identification and not taking it too far is just another socially constructed behaviour..... innit?
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  • 1 reply, Last reply by marketingtomilk on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 9:46 pm
  • Report Sat Jan 21, 2012 - 9:46 pm
    @Nikkii: i hard about that case today on radio 4. The need to identify and categorise is an intriguing on.
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 6:00 pm
    by  Michele
    Not all girls are like your niece - by ANY stretch of the imagination. Boys and girls do gravitate towards different things, though. I remember when my first daughter was about 3, she found a giant plastic snarly dinosaur and carried it around tenderly, like a baby. My friend's son the same age, who had been painstakingly brought up to be gentle and non-violent, had his dinosaur smashing and eating people. But people tend to overplay the "inherent" differences - I ask you all, what kinds of presents do you get your friends' kids for their birthdays? Legos for boys and Princess crap for girls, I bet. And yes, they do like their presents. But girls like Legos too, and boys can play with other things besides Legos. What I object to is parents noticing these differences and then going overboard reinforcing them. And there are PLENTY of boys and girls who don't come as heavily predisposed to the supposed tendencies of their genders. My 2 girls are that way - first-born has always been very feminine, second-born very much less so. I myself have never been particularly feminine - it's jeans and a ponytail for me, and no make-up ever. I think the more we harp on gender differences, the more we limit our children, both boys and girls. It's more important to know who your child is, rather than what their gender says they should be.
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  • 5 replies, Last reply by Iota on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 2:22 am
  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 6:53 pm
    @Michele: Not meant to be prescriptive, or restrictive, or limiting. Just honest. Boys and girls, generally speaking, have fundamental physical, emotional, differences, driven through their basic biology (from an evolutionary perspective). To understand this is not to judge it or make it so when it is not relevant. I just think there's a bit too much hooha made about it all. Categories are useful, but not exclusive. M2M
    Reply Delete
  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 7:12 pm
    @Michele: When my boys were toddlers, I said we wouldn't have toy guns. So they picked up sticks and used them as guns. They didn't watch shows with guns, and we didn't have any real ones. How Do They Know?
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 9:26 pm
    @rootietoot: That's funny. I said the same thing to my son. Then one day, as if in slow motion (he was about 3) I watched as he raised his little hands to his face flexed his fingers and slowly pointed each forefinger ahead on each hand forming yes, you guessed it two guns. At which point his eyes lit up and he started on the whole gun shot sound effects. You just cannot win!
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 9:28 pm
    @Gigi (Ed.): It makes you wonder if guns were invented to explain why little boys did that thing with their fingers and said BANG.
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  • Report Fri Jan 20, 2012 - 2:22 am
    by  Iota
    @Michele: There's a brilliant book on this very subject which I highly recommend. It's called "Cinderella Ate My Daughter", by Peggy Orenstein.
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  • Report Fri Jan 20, 2012 - 1:18 am
    Believe me, they ARE different. I've written several pieces on this very topic and you couldn't be more right.
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 2:04 pm
    Do you know, I've never thought about how a scrotum must get in the way when you're just trying to wipe your arse. Learn something new every day.
    Reply Delete
  • 3 replies, Last reply by marketingtomilk on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 9:46 pm
  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 4:45 pm
    @Scribbling Mum : i learn new things every single day - being the token female in this household. most of them are pretty gross.
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 9:29 pm
    @marketingtomilk: In the interest of this very scrotal issue, I asked my 22 year old son if his balls got in the way. He responded with "No, mom, but sometimes when I drop a log I have to wipe the backside of them." Gawd...
    Reply Delete
  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 9:46 pm
    @rootietoot: I'm not sure girls ever "drop logs". point made.
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 3:48 pm
    by  Glen
    Absolutely bang on the money. Yes elements of our attitudes and behaviour are created by our surroundings but not all. somethings are just simply what they are. boys are boys - girls are girls. Thank goodness for that
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  • 4 replies, Last reply by rootietoot on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 9:30 pm
  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 3:57 pm
    by  Glen
    @Glen: ps - ironic that my little avatar thingy appears to be a woman?
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 9:27 pm
    @Glen: It wouldn't be if you uploaded one like you are supposed to. Men!
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 4:45 pm
    @Glen: thank goodness. amen.
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 9:30 pm
    @Glen: Absolutely. I love men, tho I am thankful that I am not one. As is my husband.
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 4:39 pm
    Feminism isn't about making them same. It's about give us equal opportunities even though we are different and empowering women to believe in themselves, look after themselves and protect their own interests. Male and female = black and white Men have subjugated women, repress us and keep us as their slaves. Men are the dominant gender and they have the power majority and with this majority they have created a world that keeps the majority of women enslaved or victimised.
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  • 2 replies, Last reply by Clare Macnaughton on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 4:50 pm
  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 4:44 pm
    @Clare Macnaughton: woah! I hope you've got boxer shorts on under your skirt. ;>) I'd beg to differ - not all of feminism seems to be about that, or at least not everyone that calls themselves a feminist is happy to celebrate difference, but are only out to underplay it. IMO anyway M2M
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 4:50 pm
    @marketingtomilk: i have given up pants altogether. Women need to stick together and not get into the nitty gritty. I agree with you that we should celebrate difference and part of the celebration is looking at the challenges women face and helping them fulfill their lives so they protect their own interests and look after themselves.
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 4:13 pm
    by  Eve
    All i can say is lady, you need to meet MY daughters. They are (apparently) proper little boys.
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  • 1 reply, Last reply by marketingtomilk on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 4:44 pm
  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 4:44 pm
    @Eve: I'd blame the midwife who sexed them at birth in that case ;>)
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 1:30 pm
    by  Iota
    When your daughter asks "please can I have lettuce in my ham sandwich, I love lettuce", or "I didn't eat the chocolate biscuit in my packed lunch because I didn't have time after I'd eaten the carrots" and you pass out with shock, having spent years of your life trying to persuade your sons to eat healthily, THEN tell me boys and girls are just the same.
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 11:03 am
    Personalities and preferences are on a spectrum, not a binary thing. Boys tend this way, girls tend that way. I was the girl in torn jeans and her brother's hand-me-down flannel shirt who ran around with a toy gun and climbed trees and didn't care a whit if I got dirty. My parents tried, by giving me dolls (whose heads I shaved to make them look like boys,except they were Barbie dolls) and Dad finally relented when I was 10 and taught me how to use the power tools so I would be less likely to cut off my fingers. However, I am still all girl, married with 4 sons, and a definite preference for guns and power tools over makeup and shoes. I believe there are elements of both nature and nurture in the development of boy types and girl types.
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  • 2 replies, Last reply by rootietoot on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 12:22 pm
  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 11:38 am
    @rootietoot: I still think if you asked 100 women "guns or make up" there'd be a strong bias one way. Even girls that had been brought up as boys. ahem. Where's the control group in this experiment?
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 12:22 pm
    @marketingtomilk: Oh I agree with you there! I enjoy tipping the the spectrum. I wasn't exactly brought up as a boy,my parents tried mightily to make me a girly girl. I'd come home from school to find my room redecorated in pink flowers, and Mom bought makeup for me when I was 13, but it never really 'took'. I still prefer jeans and flannel shirts and never wear makeup, but am definitely female.
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 9:34 am
    by  Kelloggsville
    Guiding is one of the few organisations that recognises those differences openly. No girl is held back because of her gender but the difference in the way they are is celebrated in a girls only space that allows girls to be themselves. I could cope with boys as they are if only they would grow up at some point but sadly the older ones are still electronically chasing each other around trees yelling die die. The toilet is still a sigh worthy room but I draw the line at wiping hubby's backside.
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 9:05 am
    by  Peabee
    I'd say that most parents rearing a mixed-sex family would agree. Whilst there will always be exceptions to the rule, it's undeniable that boys and girls are naturally very different - and I love that they are. Why would we want to create a homogenous generation? Boys are natural spreaders - they fill a room with themselves, their noise and their toys. In an educational environment this can be really disruptive and in the early years can disadvantage boys. Girls tend to play in a more contained way, creating little areas and sticking to them, but then there comes the expectation that girls are homemakers and shouldn't try to escape from the castle. Gender stereotyping is only a bad thing when it leads to conclusions of 'One sex good, the other sex bad, or fixed assumptions about a child. If we can put that all of that aside, celebrate the differences and allow our children to grow and evolve without fixing them with labels we'd get a lot further.
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  • Report Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 9:01 am
    by  LoriD
    And amen to that. Great post M2M- I'm constantly amazed by kids. Despite any freedoms given to them, most boys gravitate to 'boy stuff' and girls to 'girl stuff'- it's just the way it is.
    Reply Delete

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