May 22
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Those aren't my family values
As mothers, we want to be proud of our children. We want to be able to celebrate their victories and mourn their losses with them.
But how do we do that when our child is involved in an organization whose core values are so very different from our own?
I am ravaged with guilt over the fact that my son is a member of The Boy Scouts of America, a notoriously anti-gay organization.
Sure, my husband and I could have forbidden our son from joining BSA 6 years ago when he burst through the front door babbling a mile a minute about all the cool stuff he would get to do in scouts. But we didn't. We went to the informational meeting and when we saw all the friends we already knew there, we decided to give it a shot. Maybe it wasn't as intolerant as it was portrayed in the media.
Six years later, and being a Boy Scout is still my son's favorite thing. Just tonight, he passed his Board of Review and advanced to the rank of First Class. I can honestly say that the experiences and skills he has learned as a scout have only been positive and character building. And at the local level, my son and husband (who frequently volunteers with the troop) have never once witnessed any kind of bigotry or intolerance.
But when I read a story like that of Jennifer Tyrrell, the Cub Scout Den Leader who was ousted solely for being a lesbian, my heart simply breaks. It is unconscionable in this day and age that someone would be discriminated against like that for simply being herself.
How can I possibly justify my family's involvement in an organization that excludes other human beings in the name of God and "family values"? It is so inconsistent with the God of my understanding. The Jesus I know and love would NEVER do such a thing. Remember when he fed the multitudes with just a few loaves and fishes? Could you ever imagine him saying "No fish for you!" to the friends of Dorothy in the colorful tunics? No effing way.
I could boycott the Boy Scouts to voice my opinion. Many people do. But after 102 years and with a Supreme Court decision backing their first amendment right of "expressive association" (Dale vs. BSA, June 2000), I don't feel very optimistic that boycotting can make much of an impact. And at this point, it would devastate my son to leave this troop that he has grown with for the past 6 years.
I feel like my family has a greater chance of making a difference in this organization from within its rigid walls anyway. So we will stay, as long as my son wants to be there. I will continue to speak out about what I think is right. And I will ensure that my children don't ever confuse someone else's version of "family values" with the values our family actually does hold dear: faith, hope, and love. Naturally, the greatest of these is love. And to truly love like Jesus means that all are welcome.
Want to do something about the BSA's discrimination against LGBT leaders? Join me in signing this petition at Change.org. You can also Tweet about it with the hashtag #scoutsforall.
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Comments (123)
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Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 1:45 am
Alas, the Boy Scout organization has seen fit to reiterate their intolerance against gays. Very sad and proof I think, that despite everyone hoping that they are making changes from within, it's not happening. I may have to retract what I sad earlier about my stance. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/us/boy-scouts-reaffirm-ban-on-gay-members.html?_r=1&smid=fb-shareReply -
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Thu Jun 7, 2012 - 6:45 pm
Thought everyone might be interested in this. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/07/boy-scouts-to-review-ban-on-gays/Reply -
Report Sat May 26, 2012 - 11:21 amThe boys had an option to join Boy Scouts or Demolay. They chose Demolay. Kinda along the same lines but the kids regardless of stereotype or label, get together and have fun. They wear business attire, have formal meetings, do community service, learn about how to be gentlemen (and truly live up to the boys will be boys motto). Where else can you go on a scavenger hunt through the streets of your town while wearing silk boxers on your head. Its a shame that one cannot be who they truly are based on their desire to be a woman in comfortable shoes.Reply
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5 replies, Last reply by Kris on Thu May 31, 2012 at 9:06 am
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Wed May 30, 2012 - 3:45 am
I must say - this is a really great, respectful discussion given how many of us hold strong views. And - wait for it- I have somewhat come to a different position because of everyone's input. While I still think that people shouldn't join organizations with such heinous views and practices, (I mean why join an organization you disagree with on such an important point?) if you're already a member, then yes, fight for change from within. Just promise to do that and keep your word.Reply
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6 replies, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Thu May 31, 2012 at 7:36 am
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Report Thu May 24, 2012 - 10:24 pmAlso, different troops are pretty much allowed to go their own way. Everyone who has a son who wishes to join the Scouts should contact the local leaders. There are many troops across the country which include GLBT kids. Apparently the National level doesn't interfere on a local basis. If your son's troop is accepting of boys who are different, then you/he should be fine. BTW, the Girl Scouts have no such exclusionary rules; they accept all girls no questions asked.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 30, 2012 at 4:06 am
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Report Sat May 26, 2012 - 3:09 amI'm so proud of you. BE STRONG. I'm so tired of watching people be discriminated against. Love, is love, is love. As long as its of a legal age and mutual, I say make whoopie and be happy!Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 30, 2012 at 4:05 am
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Report Thu May 24, 2012 - 7:14 pmI have felt conflicted in many organizations: church, Boy Scouts, HOA's PTAs,..the list goes on. One thing I know for sure, the best way to change ideology is from the inside out. Don't quit, get inside to the positions that effect change. Boy Scouts is still run by old school men in Texas. C'mon! Change will happen, just don't expect it with their current leadership. It's also a private organization, which makes it trickier. I tell my kids to jump through life's hoops until they are in a position to change the rules,. Some circumstances call for falling on the sword and that's a personal decision. I refuse to tell anyone to boycott Scouts because of this disgusting rule. Atheism is also banned, although you can be agnostic. (That is the out, I guess) I adore Boy Scouts btw. Boys' and parent's lives are tremendously enriched through Scouting. Hate the bigotry of it, but they cant kick us out for declaring their rules outdated! Which I do, regularly! As a side note, the first openly gay Air Force Academy Cadets graduated this year. It took 24 years for that battle to end. This one will too, with the right leadership.Reply
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Report Thu May 24, 2012 - 7:00 pmSometimes we are just forced to dance with devil. In spite of there 'anti' rules and there are more than one, my boys learned a lot of positive things from BSA. I think it's a decent organization with a few mis-guided leaders. Your son can be a good example of the true spirit of a boy scout.Reply
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Wed May 23, 2012 - 1:10 am
So much of life is an analysis of the costs versus the benefits. The character building and lessons scouting instills are tremendous. Dare I say it, you can even use the organization's intolerance as the dreaded "teaching moment" to highlight how intolerance can infiltrate even the most well-intentioned spaces. You can call it the "No Blind Loyalty" merit badge.Reply
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6 replies, Last reply by Toni on Wed May 23, 2012 at 6:14 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 5:03 pmWe are a heavily involved Scouting family, and it breaks my heart to see people being discriminated against based on who they love. Biracial families are allowed to be in Scouting, and blacks and whites weren't allowed to marry at one time. Why are gays so different? I will still support our local Scouts. We have a great Pack that is openminded, and actually adapt to go around requirements that don't fit with everyone's lifestyles. But, we recognize that the life skills the boys develop through Scouting is fantastic. It's jut so sad that the orgnization as a whole is so backward. It's kind of like the government, or political candidates... I don't agree with all parts of what they support, but do agree with parts.Reply
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3 replies, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 4:44 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 9:11 pmHmmm...we love the scouts, too and in some small way, I can kind of see what some of their motivation might be. Right or wrong, when people think of scouts, one of the things that comes to mind are the issues they've had in the past regarding the molestation of little boys-- I can see where their current stance banning gays from positions of leadership might help them show that they have really changed things in the interest of safeguarding the children they serve. That said, my boys are cub scouts and I would have no problem with a lesbian parent being their Den Leader. In truth, I am also a past molest-ee and I would be much more uneasy about a gay man being their den leader, particularly if he didn't have children of his own in the pack. Could part of the issue for the scouting organization be that it would be even more awkward to ban just one gender of the LGBT community from serving and they know that people like me would have more issues with gay men leading and so they have to ban the whole group? If so, I'm truly sorry and I wish I could feel differently. This hasn't been an issue I've ever thought about, though-- I might still get there. ------ Ok-- so I walked away and was still thinking about this. The BSA also has a very strong emphasis on parental involvement (I assume in part to combat their molestation issues of the past). If we did have a gay man as den leader, we wouldn't pull our kids out, they just wouldn't go on any sleep aways without us there. Frankly, I am this cautious about all the people involved with my kids-- the sexual orientation of the leader wouldn't actually be a factor. I don't think gay people are any more likely to be inappropriate with children than straight people, though I do think men are more likely to be than women are (this is born out by statistics). I would be uneasy with my daughter being in any group where she spent long periods with a straight man without parental oversight-- I would have similar concerns about our boys in a group being led by a gay man. So-- I guess as long as parents are welcomed and generally around, I wouldn't have any issues with a gay den leader. In fact, I think it would be a healthy thing for them to see a man introducing his partner at the pack ceremonies and having it be no big deal. Thanks, Iris (Leslie) for giving me a chance to think this through. :)Reply
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13 replies, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 4:43 pm
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Tue May 22, 2012 - 6:29 pm
The problem is, unless families stop letting their sons join, this will continue. When families say "Yes, but the kids love the activities and the Boy Scouts does such a good job otherwise...." it's basically condoning the entire organization.Reply
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10 replies, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 4:39 pm
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Report Wed May 23, 2012 - 8:04 amYeah, I hear you. How can something so bad be such a good thing at the same time? Ugh, what can you do. I think the important thing is that you voice your opinion when you get a chance to be heard, and then, beyond that, I don't see any guilt in utilizing all of the opportunities for bonding and self-improvement/character-building until the day that they might perhaps come to their senses. It's just drawing a good thing from a bad situation. I think it's a great learning opportunity for your son in both learning skills and having you to point out hypocrisy/discrimination when it comes to the forefront. Also, since I said nothing to the effect of "zany" in my prior paragraph, I am obligated to say the words "erect cat nipple." I don't make the rules.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 4:33 pm
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Wed May 23, 2012 - 7:52 am
An organization that teaches so many good things but stand behind one bad thing...that's a tough decision. I, too, have a problem with their stance on homosexuality. But I also think the best way to persuade people to open their minds, is to quietly show them they don't have to be scared of what is different or new to them.Reply -
1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 4:24 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 11:40 pmI wonder if families might feel so "torn" if the same organization wouldn't allow boys of color to join? Or Muslim boys? At what point do you say "Enough is enough" or do you just keep on seeing only the good parts? Gays are people as much as anyone else; it's not just a "habit", a "lifestyle" or a "personal choice", it's who they are. I genuinely don't understand how this isn't as heinous as racial or religious prejudice and why it's OK to be a part of it.Reply
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3 replies, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 4:17 pm
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Report Wed May 23, 2012 - 12:21 amI also think you're doing the right thing. As long as you educate your son about your beliefs. XxXReply
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2 replies, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 3:23 am
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 9:28 pmMy mother pulled my brother out of boy scouts because she could not condone the values that they were promoting. There are enough other activities out there, enough other ways to promote community that he did not need to be part of an organization that was intolerant and homophobic. My (nonexistent) boy children will not be boy scouts and if they ask why, I'll explain that the organization won't let people like their Aunt Lindsay and Uncle Eric participate because of who they love. If I've parented them properly, even remotely, that answer will be enough.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 3:15 am
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 9:39 pmAll 3 of my nephews were scouts. 2 of them are Eagle scouts and I am very proud of them. Now as adults.....one of them has informed us that he is gay. Although we always knew or suspected that, it has been very hard for him. I am still very proud of him. I don't know why scouting should be concerned about sexual orientation in any way. That is not something the leaders should be teaching or discussing with these children. All children benefit from the social and leadership skills learned in scouting (girls or boy scouts).Reply
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3 replies, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 3:08 am
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Tue May 22, 2012 - 11:51 pm
Thanks for doing this post. I will be signing the petition. I certainly hope it will help. Lisa/LynnReply -
1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 3:07 am
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Report Wed May 23, 2012 - 12:08 amYou know, I'd never thought of it. I don't know how I'd handle it if he was knee deep in his commitment to it like your son is. I'd definitely be conflicted too.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 3:06 am
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 10:36 pmI struggled with this very problem myself. My husband wanted my son to join Cub Scouts when he entered first grade. I do not approve of the organization because of their lack of tolerance towards gays and atheists. I let hubs win this one though and my 8 year old is now finishing his second year of scouting. Fortunately for me, my son he has decided he doesn't like it (the meetings bore him) and has opted not to join next year. I am thrilled as I really had a hard time reconciling my political/moral beliefs with allowing my son to pursue extracurricular activities that might be good for him. His decision now allows him to join the swim club and possibly math club next year.Reply
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2 replies, Last reply by Jessica on Wed May 23, 2012 at 12:23 am
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Tue May 22, 2012 - 8:00 pm
I can see how it's a tough decision to wrestle with - but if we were extremely polarized about our decisions and who we chose to associate with, maybe we'd be a little bit on the unforgiving side too. I guess for the sake of of children's happiness, we need to turn the other cheek, bite our tongues... and make sure we at least help our kids learn tolerance for the next generation..Reply -
1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 12:22 am
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 7:05 pmThis is an interesting post. Boy Scouts is huge at our elementary school. I've always been very clear with my husband that our boys would NOT be scouts because of the intolerence of that organization "so don't even bring it up." Now the problem happens of course when one of our boys brings it up because I'm not sure how to say "no" or if saying "no" is the right thing. If I could explain it to my child in a way he could truly understand why he shouldn't be a part of it, it might be a good thing to say "no". Until then, I'm just hoping he never asks. When I see a kid in a scout uniform, it reminds me of the hitler youth. I'm making a joke of course (don't hit me!) but still....Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 12:21 am
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 10:03 pmSo so tough... I think you are doing the right thing though. the only one who would suffer or be hurt by you pulling him out would be your son. Someday your son will understand and be grateful you let him be himself...and because you raised him he will be tolerant of others :-)Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 12:15 am
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 10:16 pmThank you for this. I was considering Scouts for my son in the autumn. I think he'll love it, BUT... I already checked and our local Pack is not in favor of the National's stance on this. I'm struggling with "Is that enough?" I remain undecided but have a few months to think it through. That said, I've always been a Change It From the Inside sort of person... Here is hoping for a better way for Scouts. (off to sign the petition)Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 12:15 am
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 10:30 pmHey B, I am sure you know where we line up on this but I want to say two things.. First, there is no correlation whatsoever between homosexuality and child molestation as one of your readers may be thinking. Also, BSA does instill important "values" to boys. If I hire someone with BSA on his resume I know he will be on time and follow through on commitments. In 2012 you can support your son, participate in BSA and let people know that someone's sexuality if not a concern for you. Change will be driven from the troop level up.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 12:13 am
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 11:38 pmIris- thank you for a great read today! I signed and I totally support your decision to allow your son to participate - while still instilling in him your family values and teaching him acceptance of all!Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Wed May 23, 2012 at 12:03 am
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 10:44 pmIt is exremely difficultt to find activites for children these days that meet all our needs. As parents it is so important that our children understand our family's values first and that they also learn how to filter out the good from the bad. The best thing you've done about the issue is raise it as an issue- your head is not in the sand and you haven't just walked away and ignored it. Instead you choose to acknowledge the good and do something about the bad. That is commendable! Fight the good fights as they say.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 11:37 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 9:42 pmI recently ripped off the bumper sticker on my van "Proud of My Eagles Scouts". I am still very proud of my boys, but tired of the BSA antiquated policy. My husband is still very active in the troop even though our boys are adults. He is there for the other young boys who need and love the scouting experience. Do you throw the baby out with the bath water? Sure the official stance of BSA is frustrating and I certainly have witnessed homophobia and heterosexist attitudes at scouting events. My oldest son is gay, my youngest atheist and they both are Eagle Scouts. My opinion is just get out of it what you can and maybe in the process change some minds and hearts at the local level. I can rarely embrace all the dogma any orginization puts forth. Just take the best parts and move on.Reply
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2 replies, Last reply by Kate on Tue May 22, 2012 at 11:29 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 11:10 pmI have signed and shared. I recognize that this is a complex issue, and I think that no organization can change without pressure from within. My son will never join, but that's a personal decision for me and my family. And it really helps that I'm pretty sure that my little guy will never come home with the sign-up sheets looking excited. He's into dance, and there just isn't a 'ballet-recital' badge.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 11:28 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 5:51 pmsigned the petition. happy to do it.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 10:04 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 7:35 pmI fail to see how this hateful bigotry exercises any of the 12 core values of Scouting. What a shameful example this policy sets for young people.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 10:04 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 8:27 pmMy kindergartner is desperate to join the scouts. His sister is a girl scout and he sees all the fun things she does. It's so hard to let him, but we are going to and hope for the best.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 10:00 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 8:46 pm"And I will ensure that my children don't ​​ever confuse someone else's version of "family values" with the values our family actually does hold dear: faith, hope, and love." -- That's the most important. That you teach him what's really meaningful, and that's not to hate or neglect anyone.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 9:59 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 9:09 pmIt's the age-old question, isn't it: fight the system from within or fight it from outside...oddly, I think Jesus could be described as fighting from the outside, not the inside, but I think you're right, in this instance, to stay in the troop. You leaving won't mean anything to the organization but will mean the world to your son. So stay and fight, as it were. Bill McKibben has a great essay from about 15 years ago about how many modern "Christians" get it wrong because they don't want to do that whole pesky "love thy neighbors as thyself" thing - after all, if we loved our neighbors as ourselves, would we kick ourselves out of Scouts? I doubt it.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 9:59 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 5:32 pmThis post is perfect timing...my oldest came home yesterday begging to join...I never made it past one meeting as a Girl Scout, so I have no experience...I had forgotten the Boys Scouts stance on LGBT...this makes me even more unsure about whether to let him join...Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 5:41 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 5:14 pmThanks for sharing this! I was happy to sign the petition.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 5:37 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 5:27 pmDid I tell you that the "donor" we used to concieve our son is an "Eagle Scout"? Word to yo Mothers'.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 5:34 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 4:50 pmI am a Girl Scout leader for 2 troops and of course my youngest (who is a boy) was going to want to be a scout. The first thing I did was talk to my local leader and grill him about their stance on LGBT. I found out that we are only 1 of 2 states in the country have defied the National stance and will allow all to be treated equal...which is the only reason he is a Scout. I will be happy to sign this petition and maybe one day Boy Scouts will join Girl Scouts in its views of openness and respect for all.Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 5:02 pm
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Report Tue May 22, 2012 - 4:38 pmThank you for writing this! My don is only three but I already worry about it! My dad and brother were both involved in scouts & loved it, i hope as you do, that if more tolerant people are involved, it will be better for everyone!Reply
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1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 5:00 pm
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Tue May 22, 2012 - 4:22 pm
I'm right there with you. My son loves Scouts, he has learned so much, and I don't see the intolerance at the local level...BUT, I don't like that institutional ban of gays. I'm signing the petition with you.Reply -
1 reply, Last reply by The Bearded Iris on Tue May 22, 2012 at 4:59 pm
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